Award winning Scottish pianist composer Fergus McCreadie generously took time out from his busy schedule when he was in Zurich for a zoom call with guest contributor Colin May. This took place shortly after the end of the Fergus McCreadie trio’s ‘Unfurrowed Field’ tour with innovative classical ensemble The Manchester Collective and before the realise of his latest trio album ‘Stream’ on 4th May 2024.

Fergus McCreadie’s music is noted for bringing together Scottish folk music and jazz, and this was the starting point of the conversation.

CM - How did you get into the folk element of your music?

FM -  “Sometimes I feel I have a more natural aptitude for folk music than jazz music actually. It happens that I spent the vast majority of my youth learning how to play jazz, and folk has been a little bit more on the periphery definitely in what I perform and what I practice and what I write most of the time.

But from being super young I used to listen to a programme on BBC Alba which is the BBC Scottish Gaelic station. I used to listen to that on the radio every time that I got a chance. I played pipes when I was younger as well, there were pipe bands in the town where I was from, and my Mum always listened to trad music as well. So it was always there.

I think as well that jazz is one of Americas folk musics in a way. In that same way for someone who is from America, they’ve heard jazz when growing up, they’re from the crux. Being in Scotland I am from the crux of where Scottish music is from, world class Scottish music. Being in Glasgow which is like the nucleus of a lot of the music and is where a lot of the players are I would say at least nowadays, when I was in college I started meeting a lot of folk musicians and playing occasionally with folk musicians. It crept into my own writing as something I was interested in slowly by osmosis I think.”

CM - It sounds as you’re saying it’s in your DNA so therefore almost inevitably it emerged?

FM- “It feels more of an effort for me to write something that only sounds like a jazz thing than it does to write something that has this folk (element). There are definitely periods in terms of my listening habits I am listening more to folk than to jazz. For me its changeable”.

CM- So how does this deep engagement with Scottish folk music come into your composition process?

FM - “I think its halfway between jazz and folk. I am not thinking about genre when I write. What I do try is to be as knowledgable in both the genres as possible. So when I am writing, whenever an idea comes in you know, it’s not 100 percent Scottish folk, it’s not 100 percent jazz. It comes from as well informed place as possible”
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When you’re improvising or composing, things just pop out that you know well. Its a case of knowing the traditional stuff well and hopefully you bring something of it’s influence which is not too much of a copy”.

CM - Has there been any change in the folk-jazz interaction since your days as a student when you recorded the ‘Turas’ album in 2017?

FM - “I would say there has been a change. Maybe change is the wrong word. It’s more that it evolved. When I am practising I am never really practising my own stuff unless I am writing or I’ve written something that I can’t play as well as I’d like to yet.

So most of my practice involves trying to play in a style which is not my own which I think helps inform my own style in a way if that makes sense.

I would just say I am more informed about both genres I think. I think technically I am a better piano player than the first album as well, and I think we’ve grown together more as a trio since the first record too. So I think it’s more of an evolution really. The basic principle of what we do hasn’t changed but I think we’ve got better at doing it in a more fluid way if that makes sense”.

CM- Can you say a bit more about the styles you don’t usually play but do play when practising?

FM - “Yeah I practice a lot. I try and cultivate this relationship with my practising where it’s more like a kind of holiday for me rather than feeling too much like a chore that I need to do if that makes sense. I just enjoy feeling that progression of improvement which hopefully keeps on happening over time.

I have quite a stretch routine which I do with myself. I always start with an hour of technical practice. So that usually involves some different exercises like developing your pinkie and forefinger especially, as these are the weak fingers of the hand to me. And just general dexterity to move your fingers as well.

Then something to do with rotation as well;. Generally piano, this is getting quite specific, if you look at really great classical pianists who have really good technique, or you look at Oscar Peterson for example who has got really really amazing technique, his wrist is actually really loose all the time he’s moving from one finger to another. I spend quite a lot of time trying to get that movement really quick ‘cause that’s what helps you an awful lot.

I’ve done a lot of Bach actually in the past I’m not doing any Bach right now, I’ll spend some time on a Chopin étude just to get the technical aspect of it. Then try to play something that’s really really outwith my grasp technically you know. Then play some Bebop usually, then some really traditional trad. Then I’ll try and play another classical piece that’s different to Chopin. I’ll keep cycling through stuff. Usually I’ll spend half an hour on each thing so I’ve done a few things until I don’t have any more time to practice in the day.

Always I’ll try and learn a lot of standards as well, including kind of doing a bit of stride, to try to be comfortably be fluid (in my playing of) standards and so on. I think a lot of it is learning a lot of tunes and trying to learn them in different ways and different styles. The further I go on in my practice the more loose it gets and I start doing what I feel like if that makes sense”

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CM - When you are touring can you sustain your practice regime? Do you have the equivalent of a piano you can take with you?

FM - “No nothing portable. I just try and find pianos but sometimes that’s tricky. I’ve been here (in Zurich) since yesterday afternoon, the gig is tonight, and I’ve had no chance to have practice sessions as there’s not really been a space that I can locate unfortunately. Sometimes it’s nice to be forced to take time off as well. If you are doing a tour with a lot of travelling it can be really difficult to do practice ‘cause there’s not time in the day.

But on The Manchester Collective tour I did manage to get in a couple of hours practice each day ‘cause I always got to the venue early ‘cause it (the travel between venues) was routed quite well and easy to get around. I managed okay on that tour. If I have a day off that’s when I’ll try to do 4 or 5 hours”.

CM - How was the experience of collaborating with classical musicians of The Manchester Collective?

FM - “The tour was one of my most enjoyable experiences. The approach of us and them was different , we being improvisers and them working off a score. Actually they were quite up for improvising especially Rakhi Singh the leader, though they didn’t have the in depth jazz knowledge for instance of bebop. They were just so good in finding a lot of depth in the music I had written which I didn’t know was there, so that’s quite a cool thing. So that’s where their strength lies. And what we were bringing to it was trying to find opportunities to be creative and to find new improvisational things within the other pieces (items in the programme that Fergus McCreadie hadn’t composed).

Particularly (with) Donald (Grant’s) pieces there was room for us to find new things in there. Even with the Haydn, one of my favourite moments of the concert actually, they (The Manchester Collective) played the Haydn and that felt like a nice moment ‘cause that piece sounds so improvised. It felt good to create an improvised soundscape like a prelude to the Haydn. That was an opportunity (to find new things)..And in what I wrote for everybody I gave them more to do than play long notes by putting in dips and diversions. So yeah it was just really interesting trying to find the common grounds we could all meet on essentially”.

CM - Do you have any plans to do more work with classical musicians?

FM - “I think the Manchester Collective were talking about it. Maybe we want to tour some more, maybe record some of the music. Hopefully it is not the last time I will do it with them.

Then actually there’s some other stuff in the pipeline. I am quite interested in exploring this. When I am writing for the trio or writing for jazz musicians you’re trying to leave as much freedom as possible so that means the arc of the piece is crafted in performance, whereas trying to craft the arc of the piece before performance, writing out all the notes and how it’s going to go, hopefully I’ll do some more of it in the future for sure”.

CM - In other interviews you explained how important creating when performing for an audience is for you, and there’s been a limited release of a recording of a gig you and the trio did in Abergavenny. Could a live recording be the next record after ‘Stream’?

FM - “I actually have a live album in the bank. I did six gigs last year at the Edinburgh Jazz Festival and recorded them all but I haven’t decided fully whether that will be the next record or not. I have a couple of ideas for what the next record will be but I’m not exactly sure what that will be.. .But the live album is an option. So at some point I will release that.

Recording live was interesting to do as it was a really different experience, and I think you can unlock things in your playing that you can’t unlock in the studio in the same way if that makes sense.

But I need to talk to my manager and to the label and chat to friends, I think it’s important to get other people’s opinion if you work for yourself. I am just trying to work out what the next logical step will be”

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CM - You also have released an EP solo tracks. Might a solo album be a possibility?

FM - “Yes it’s in there. I think the next couple of albums I will do as a trio because I think there’s still a lot more mileage to be got out of the trio format.

I am enjoying playing solo now (but) would like to be a bit better before committing to a solo album and a solo sound. I don’t know how to do a solo album to be honest because when I’m playing solo concerts my favourite thing is just to improvise the whole thing. I sort of had that process with that E.P. Just went in and improvised for a few hours and picked the best bits. (A solo album) feels a little bit further down the pipeline but at some point I’ll definitely do it”.

CM - Right now you are in Zurich as part of corto.alto Liam Shortall’s band (corto.alto translates from the Spanish as tall.short). Also you play as part of Matt Carmichael’s band. It got me wondering how easy is it for you to switch from your trio to being a sideman in different bands?

FM - “It is what it is. It’s not too difficult. A big part of it is being knowledgeable, doing your homework essentially. I always try if playing a lot in a band like Matt’s band or Liam’s band, to memorize the tunes so I know them really well, inside out.

And I always try to check out the music they like, what’s influenced them. So whoever I’m playing with, I’ll try like to figure (this) out or just ask them who they like or whatever. With Matt it’s really easy to be honest ‘cause me and Matt like all the same music so I don’t have to change anything.

But with Liam it’s just having that sensibility and being really open as well. Just asking a lot “Do you like this, do you like that?”. Or if he doesn’t like something he’ll say and I won’t do it. You just learn your art over time. But I’ve been doing that (playing with Liam) for a long time, and he knows if he doesn’t like something he can just say “Don’t do that”

I think there’s a lot to be said for being nice to work with. I think about that a lot. Just in terms of being up for being criticised is a big part of it honestly. Or (maybe it’s more like) being up for trying different things or being told this doesn’t work can you do that, and also trying new things yourself.

I am really thinking about the sidesman thing. If you’re playing with other musicians, even if it’s your own band, the most important thing is not making yourself sound good but making the whole picture sound good. I’m trying to not listen to my playing but to listen to the whole group as an ensemble.

Can’t always work, sometimes you can’t get out of your own head. But if you can listen to your playing almost from the vantage point of the audience as if listening to the whole band rather than just think I need to play XY and Z’ cause that’s what I’ve been practising and that’s what will make me personally sound good. It’s just contextualising it in that way”.

CM - With your new album ‘Stream’ that’s released on 4th May, is there anything we should be listening out for that’s different form your previous albums?

“One of the things that’s interesting to me about this record and I think is slightly different to the other records. is I am really interested in crafting a narrative through an album.

I think something we are in danger of loosing these days is the art of the album. Spotify is kind of the art of the track. People create playlists and they listen to their playlist. I do playlists sometimes as well too. But when I was young listening to albums all the time, I just had it on my iPod so this is pre-Spotify. My generation is probably the last generation not to have grown up entirely with streaming. Obviously streaming started to come in when I was 18/19/20 probably, a bit later. In the last 5/6/7 years it’s really become the biggest way people listen too and consume music.

But I think the danger with playlisting or listening to a couple of tracks from an album you know, the danger of having all music available, is that you are not forced to really get into an album. I must have had about 20 albums on my iPod. It meant I had a limit to what I could listen too so I listened to the same album over and over and over again and really got to know those albums.

That’s a big tangent. But I’m interested a lot in how you can make the album have this nice continuity to it. So when you listen to it from the start to the finish you feel like you’ve experienced something. It’s not just about the tracks. It’s about how the tracks relate to each other and how the change in pacing makes you feel while you listen to it.

That’s the thing I’m proudest of in this album, I think it has a nice pace to it. I’ve thought a lot about the different track lengths and placing them in certain places so there’s a short track to start the album and then a long track then a bunch of shorter tracks, some very short tracks, then a longer track and a shorter track to finish.

There’s that change in length and I think creates a sort of flow in the record hopefully. And then I think I’ve tried to organise the tunes in a way as well tonally, the key centres. It starts off quite dark and gets less dark as we go on. At the start it’s like kind of stormy, like a stormy sea, then over time the clouds clear or whatever and by the end it’s peaceful, hopefully some kind of maybe sunset image or whatever you would associate peaceful water with.

I would say that’s the thing to look out for how the album feels from start to finish. Hopefully it delivers on what I claim”.

‘Stream’ is out now on Edition Records.

Tour dates;

2024
10 May Brewery Arts, Kendal
12 May The Glasshouse, Gateshead
13 May Philharmonic Hall, Liverpool
15 May Sendesaal, Bremen
19 May Band on the Wall, Manchester
24 May Seven Arts, Leeds
25 May Saffron Hall, Saffron Walden
30 May Peggy’s Skylight, Nottingham
1 June Turner Sims, Southampton
3 June Cecil Sharp House, London
11 June Fasching, Stockholm
14 June Jazz Club Hanover
21 June MacIntosh Church, Glasgow

On International Jazz Day, 30 April, BBC Radio 3 broadcast a recording of Fergus McCreadie and The Manchester Collective’s concert at the Southbank, London which was part of their ‘Unfurrowed Field ‘tour, and this is available approximately till 28 May.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001y9fv

A review of the final concert of the tour in Oxford can be found on The Jazz Mann’s site at;
https://www.thejazzmann.com/reviews/review/manchester-collective-and-fergus-mccreadie-trio-town-hall-oxford-16-03-2024

INTERVIEW by COLIN MAY, conducted 5th April 2024.

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